Moonkin talent selection 4 comments
updated 7th of Apr 2010
posted 30th of Dec 2009
by Aeiedil
WoW v.3.3.3
Here is a rundown of Balance druid talents. It's about the only gap I've missed so far, simply because there's a whole lot of typing involved. After having to explain it to a few more people though that just don't seem to get why Natures Reach is so valuable, here is the rundown. I'll be covering the range issue more later on. For endgame raiding Moonkin that have read articles elsewhere there won't be any real surprises here, this is aimed at newer Moonkin that may not know why some talents should be picked over others.
For the lazy that don't care for explanation of the base talents, here is a talent calculator with the base talents laid out, and a link to the section on the optional talents. There is 1 important proviso on the talent calculator link. I have selected 1/5 Genesis and 2/2 Improved Moonfire, however the following section explains about that : explanation of the bad choices to get to level 3 of the Balance tree
Please note, I will add tooltips into this post later on. There's a lot of tooltips to look up so it will take some time
Required Balance talents
5/5 Starlight Wrath will give you the equivilant of a medium-sized shed load of haste. I expect there is a conceivable situation in which it may be beneficial to drop a point or two of this, however until that point I am listing this as being 5/5 required. In order to get to the second level of the Balance tree you will need to invest in either this or Genesis, and Genesis is an incredibly weak DPS boost as it gives 1% of your DoT damage per point. Compare this to the effective haste boost. Starlight Wrath is the clear winner.
2/2 Nature's Majesty is a no-brainer really. Increased crit on Wrath, Starfire, and Starfall. 3 of the key Moonkin DPS spells. This also opens up other beautiful talents. This can't be missed.
3/3 Nature's Grace turns you into a machine gun when you start critting. Similar to having a personal for a few seconds after every single critical strike. As a Moonkin you can expect to see this up for a high percentage of your casting time. 3 seconds may not sound like much, but it is enough for 3 Wrath casts or 2 Starfire casts. Casting speed is calculated at the start of a spell cast, so even if it drops halfway through you will still see the increased casting speed. This talent is fantastic when combined with a Hurricane on adds. Hurricane critical strikes do not to my knowledge trigger this, however Starfall strikes can. More on Starfall later.
1/1 Nature's Splendor means that you have to refresh dots a little less frequently. Put simply it means that the global cooldowns used on refreshing dots will take up a lower percentage of your casting time. This single point talent will make your life that much easier.
2/2 Nature's Reach is a talent I often see skipped, which is honestly frustrating. Many other classes have range-increasing talents that do nothing but increase range. We have one that ties in with threat reduction. If you do not have this and are doing significant damage, then in PuGs especially or in any low-threat fights (for the tank) then you will risk pulling threat. Moonkin have few threat reduction abilities, so really you should take this for the sake of your tanks sanity and your own survivability. The range boost is nice too.
5/5 Vengeance should not require an explanation. Would you like to see your critical strikes hit for 150% damage, or for 200% damage? Would you like to see your critical strikes, which should account for at least 50% of Wrath casts and 70% of Starfire casts, hit for 150% or 200% damage? This 5 point talent contributes a massive amount of damage. To miss this is to be asking to be placed on the reserve rack.
3/3 Celestial Focus gives a fantastic haste boost. The pushback resistance on Hurricane is also nice for when AoEing at all. You may see other balance druids arguing that this talent is pointless when you are at the haste cap, but those balance druids can be ignored. The haste soft cap is not something to be worried about, this will still increase the DPS of your Starfire and Hurricane casts and so should be considered a required talent.
3/3 Lunar Guidance boosts your spell power by about 150ish upwards (depends on the individual Moonkins Intellect tally). Would you like 6 free Runed Cardinal Rubies? Well here you go. That will be 3 talent points thank you kindly.
1/1 Insect Swarm is one of your primary DPS spells. FF, DoTs, damage. IS and Moonfire together contribute a nice chunk of your DPS and so missing this is like chopping your foot off. Not advisable.
3/3 Improved Insect Swarm was demoted recently, however due to Owlkin Frenzy no longer being as effective on Blood Queen it is now back up here in the core talent list. It will help increase the crit rate of your Starfire, and increase the damage of your Wrath (so long as you keep relevant DoTs up of course).
3/3 Moonfury makes Moonkin angry. 10% extra damage from your 2 primary direct damage spells and one of your 2 DoTs. That will do nicely. If you don't take this then please grow some roots and start healing.
2/2 Balance of Power will free you up from having to hunt for hit rating a lot sooner than if you don't take this. Without this talent item budget that could be put to better use will be wasted on hit rating. 4% hit rating is not to be sniffed at especially for just 2 talent points.
1/1 Moonkin Form. You are reading this on Strayegg, the home for stray Moonkin. It is the balance DPS form. It increases critical strike rating and gives you mana regen for critting.
3/3 Improved Moonkin Form is a bit less cut and dry than Moonkin Form. It will mean that as well as 5% crit, all members of your raid get an additional 3% haste. They will like this. It also means that all that pretty useless spirit on your armor suddenly becomes slightly useful. For me (unbuffed) this provides just under 170 spell power. This alone would make this talent worth investing (see above where I mentioned Lunar Guidance). The raid haste boost is a bonus.
3/3 Improved Faerie Fire is a must regardless of how many Moonkin you run with. The 3% crit boost is a fantastic benefit for us in any situation. It doesn't even need to be an improved Faerie Fire on the target, if you have a bear tank on trash then just hit their target and you will get your crit boost off their feral faerie fire. The 3% hit boost on bosses is where this really comes into its own. This 3% hit boost applies to all members of the raid, and may well be relied upon by some. Without this you will get laughed at. If you don't please let me know and I'll come and laugh at you so you don't feel left out.
5/5 Wrath of Cenarius makes all that spell power you have work harder on your primary direct damage spells. You may wonder why Starfire gets twice as much as Wrath. This is simply down to the fact that on paper you will be casting about twice as many Wraths as Starfires in the same period of time, and so in principle over time the DPS increase from this talent is relatively constant for both spells. Please note I don't say exactly constant, only that it's fairly constant.
1/1 Force of Nature often gets skipped, but really it's 5-figures of damage for 1 GCD. You have no other spells that do so much in the space of 1 GCD (apart from possibly a well-timed Starfall). There is no excuse for not having a tree army in a raid.
3/3 Eclipse is a neccesity for us. We may hate it when it goes against us, but when it works for us doesn't it just feel so good. Seeing those fights where Starfire can't help but crit back to back. It's enough to make you all warm and fuzzy inside.
3/3 Earth and Moon gives you a flat 6% spell damage boost, similar to Master Shapeshifter without having to spend anything in a pointless pre-requisite. It also increases your raid spellcasters damage by 13% while you are casting on the same target. Think of it as a talent that allows Warlocks to stop putting down Curse of Elements.
1/1 Starfall is similar to Force of Nature in that it gives a fantastic DPs boost for the cost of 1 talent point and 1 GCD. This spell can cause total chaos when used carelessly, so if you are going to hit this magic button just make sure that there are no untanked adds, and no unpulled packs nearby. It will also have the side-effect of giving you a lot of Nature's Grace uptime due to crits from the Starfall meteor hits not counting as AoE damage. This is specially useful on fights like Anub HC, where a well-timed Starfall can give you 2 Nature's Grace-affected Hurricanes.
Required Feral talents
I thought I would include this for the sake of completion. There are no feral talents at all relevant to a PvE raiding Moonkin. There is no way that anyone can really argue otherwise. Thick hide would make you a bit harder to kill, Nurturing Instinct would make you easier to heal, but really what is the point in spending anything at all in getting them.
I am happy to say that I have not ever seen any Moonkin crazy enough to spend points in the Feral tree, but as I already said I included this section for the sake of completion.
Required Restoration talents
5/5 Furor 10% extra Intellect translates into increased mana (and so more mana regen from Moonkin critical strikes) and increased crit rating. This is a perfect choice to get you to tier 2
3/3 Natural Shapeshifter will feel like a waste, but Subtlety is not a concern for PvE as the amount of raid encounters where the enemy is able to dispel is negligable (Faction Champions). Naturalist also is entirely pointless for a Balance Druid. By process of elimination, Natural Shapeshifter is left. It is also required for Master Shapeshifter
2/2 Improved Mark of the Wild is again a bit of a waste or so it will feel. While it is true you could take pushback reduction, realistically pushback is not a major concern unless you are in a situation where your tank is not holding threat, in which case you are going to die anyway. Improved MotW will at least give you a 2% stat increase which is better than nothing, and will get you to tier 3 of the Restoration tree
2/2 Master Shapeshifter will confer a 4% damage boost. This makes up for the 3/3 Natural Shapeshifter. You're already this deep in the restoration tree, so not taking this would be honestly idiocy.
1/1 Omen of Clarity is a key mana conservation talent. It seems silly to spell this out but still. This will reduce your mana burn significantly by giving you free casts. It will also mean that any crits with those free casts effectively give you free mana as you still regenerate mana while in Moonkin form from crits, even when the spell cost no mana to cast.
Bad choices that you need to choose between (3 points to get to level 3)
I felt this deserved a special section. To get up to tier 3 of the balance tree you have 3 points left to spend. 2 will probably go into Improved Moonfire if you looked at TOTC tier due to the moonfire periodic crits. In Icecrown the choice is less clear. Below are 3 options, so choose whichever you like from these. I will probably go for 3/5 Genesis for the time being and see how that pans out.
Moonglow (1 to 3 points) should only be used if you have mana concerns. If you run at full mana all the time then this will do nothing for you.
Genesis (1 point) is a weak Moonkin talent. But it does increase DPS. Moonglow doesn't. That's about the end of this summary. I had previously considered Imp. MF to be potentially stronger than Genesis due to an error in my maths. This is not the case. Genesis, point for point, is weaker than Imp. Moonfire. For this reason the most any Moonkin should really have in this is 1 point.
Improved Moonfire (1 to 2 points) is a weaker talent in ICC than it was in TOTC. Moonfire periodic damage no longer crits once you are out of tier 9 so the value of this increased crit is negligible. Realistically though there is no better choice to get to tier 3. It is a stronger DPS talent point for point than Genesis or Moonglow, your only alternatives..
Optional talents, the last 2 points
If you have followed the above base talent build then you now have 5 talent points left to spend. Realistically it doesn't matter too much where these get spent. There are many viable options, all of which will increase your DPS. These 5 points are best used for filling gaps in your build. I will start with where I chose to spend them and then go through alternatives.
Typhoon (1 point) is a love it or hate it kind of spell. When glyphed it can be handy in AoE fights to proc a Nature's Grace prior to casting Hurricane. Unglyphed it can act as a spell to use in a tight corner to save your feathers. Personally I always include this in my builds and don't glyph it (aside from an Anub HC build).
Gale Winds (1 to 2 points) is practically required for an AoE build. I include a single point of this in my regular talent tree for the simple fact that AoE can be useful in places, and on that final point there are precious few better choices available. It really comes down to 1/2 Gale Winds, or 1/3 Owlkin Frenzy, and currently I'm a Gale Winds kinda owl.
Intensity (1 to 3 points) is the best of the mana preservation/regeneration talents you have left available to you. If you are finding yourself short on mana then this would make for a good first port of call for 3 of those 5 remaining points. In a longer term if you are considering this then you may need to look at your critical strike rating in order to increase regen through that method.
Moonglow (1 to 3 points) helps in low mana situations also. It doesn't increase regen, but does decrease base cost on most of your common spells. This in turn makes your mana bar stretch that much further. As with Intensity, only really look at this if you are finding yourself short on mana.
Brambles (1 to 3 points) can be nice if, unlike me, you keep Thorns up reliably on tanks. It also increases the effect of Force of Nature which again is nice. If you find ourself struggling with the last few points still then it can't hurt to throw a point in here. Realistically though the other options mentioned are better choices, and I prefer to put that last point into Gale Winds instead.
Owlkin Frenzy (1 to 3 points) has always been seen as a PvP talent. Recent mechanics in Icecrown Citadael have made this talent more appealing though. Unfortunately these mechanics appear to not have been by design and so the value of Owlkin Frenzy has, as previously mentioned, fallen back down. You won't get procs reliably in a lot of fights, the mana regen is negligible, realistically Owlkin Frenzy really should just be ignored unless you're fond of being a Panzerkin.
Talents that shouldn't really be touched
Dreamstate is a weak mana regen talent compared to the others available to you. The 5 talent points left to you are better spent in Moonglow and Intensity than in Dreamstate if you are having mana difficulties, so really there is no situation in which you, as a Balance druid, would really be touching Dreamstate. I will not make guesses about changes into Cataclysm as the next addon will likely shake everything up anyway.
Genesis (2 to 5 points) feels like it should be nice, but when you actually sit down and look at how much of your DPS under normal raiding circumstances is actually due to DoTs it really shows how weak this talent point for point actually is compared to pretty much every other alternative. Unfortunately the only alternative for the first point in Genesis is Moonglow, a mana preservation talent. Considering Mana is not an issue during raiding for most Moonkin, 1/5 Genesis is a good choice. Any more than 1 point in Genesis is wasted though.
Conclusion
Well there you have it, a base talent build along with the best options for those last 2 points. Personally I take 1/2 Gale Winds, 1/1 Typhoon, along with 2/2 Improved Moonfire and 1/5 Genesis to get past the 2nd level of the tree. If you have any feedback on any of this I'd be interested to hear it. I'll follow this up with some further explanation on a few of the talents mentioned briefly in this post at some point soon.
Comments
I don't understand why you're plopping extra points into Genesis to buff your DoT abilities while not even fully talenting your DoT abilities. I'm fairly sure that even without the tier 9 set bonus that 2 points in improved moonfire are going to net you more DPS(especially when you're glyphing for it)than an additional 2 points in Genesis(which work out to less than 1% DPS increase per point). I'm also confused as to why you've opted for 3/3 Owlkin Frenzy when it has been shown mathematically that 2 is optimal.
And while we're at it - any reason you're gemming for hit rating when you're already well above the alliance hit cap? And why are you gemming for critical strike when you've passed your lunar crit cap(you're 30 points over)?
I'm still not entirely certain on which between Genesis and Imp. Moonfire is optimal, I'm more trying it out at present to see how it feels in raids. Honestly I haven't noticed it being much worse, and it strengthens IS which appears to contribute to my overall damage more than Moonfire significantly which is the reason.
I've opted for 3/3 Owlkin Frenzy because I like being an owl, I'm sure 2/3 may be optimal however there's others that disagree with my use of Typhoon.
I've gemmed hit because I advocate ignoring Heroic Prescense. Time was I relied on it, however too often I'd see spikes of misses that were in line with being out of range about 30-50% of the time.
I'm past the lunar crit cap because I haven't regemmed lately, and a soft cap is different to a hard cap :)
I have no problem with people making "flavor" choices in there specs. Min/Maxing isn't everyone's goal and Moonkins proved in TBC and vanilla WoW that you can advance, have fun, and see content in specs that are not optimal.
My problem with this post is that you bill it as a talent guide yet you haven't doen some of the basic research on non "flavor" talents.
Genesis vs Imp MF: I haven't done the math recently but every time I've checked Imp MF has been about 250% better then genesis point for point. As you said both talents are weak, but I've never seen any credible evidence to suggest that Genesis is better then Imp MF.
No Imp IS: You concider Imp IS an optional talent? Now, I agree that it is the weakest of the core talents but it is clearly superior to all of the optional talents in terms of DPS.
Theorycrafting is a lot tougher then it used to be, but there are plenty of tools available to test these talent choices even if you don't want to build your own spreadsheet. You could have easily compared these talents using Wrathcalcs, SimulationCraft, Rawr, or Team Robot.
This post is in need of an update to be honest Graylo, I made an error in my maths which I thought I had corrected that had led to Genesis being vastly overvalued. I would not have written what I had without those numbers.
The logic behind Imp IS was due to the Blood Queen mechanic and the behavior of Owlkin Frenzy. My recommendation was based on BQ being a DPS race for many people hitting it, and the value of OF (pre-fix) was significant.
Following the change OF is now back to where it always has been though. This will lead to Imp. IS being pushed back up into the "core" list, as I'm sure you would agree with. I have not updated this though since 3.3.2 (see the version number at the top of the post), it is certainly on my list though.
I have lately been running further tests through an updated version of Simulationcraft, the same systems that will be used again once I have got other priorities out of the way to build up The Pecking Order.